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LaneCh (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
This video should help you with that:watch?v=_A5A8XBRVbw
chicamccartney (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
I listened to this video and it seemed to make sense, but 2 Peter 3:9 does seem to contradict what you are saying. What do you make of this verse?
lowkimbo (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
Every man, woman, and child is deserving of God's wrath. His Grace and Mercy is what is on the menu. No one is worthy to step a foot in the gates of Heaven on his or her own. The fact that one can stand in Heaven, in the presence of The Most High, completely justified, is because he/she is found in Christ. Look to the fact that He would even save 1. All deserve nothing and He deserves everything. God doesn't save based on works..He saves based on His own pleasure. Who are we to question that.
LaneCh (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
How is a person saved? Is it because they will it? If you hold to that view, how does that nullify God knowing who he's created is going to go to hell? Unless you're an open theist, you have no defense. If you are an open theist, too, your ot position has no defense.
boomac62 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
I wonder why so many millions of Muslims,millions of Hindus,millions of Buddahists,millions of B'ahais,millions of new age types,millions of Jews,etc,etc,etc, are just as certain that there faith is correct as we Christians are sure ours is. i am a Christian but is it becasue I am living in a mostly Christian society? sigh...Predestined you say?...So why would a God who is Love also create anybody knowing He will burn him in hells flames forever and he can do nothing to stop it?...
darrinrasberry (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
OK, apologies for the troll line at the end of my post, I got carried away. However, I am an atheist, so that might be just as worthy of a response(maybe even less) than a theistic Satanist. However, none of this answers the argument; even if I bowed down to the Devil over sacrificed cats, saying my opinion is not credible is the genetic fallacy. What, then, of the first reply, which states that God's precedent of choice applies BEFORE even evil is considered for the individual?
LaneCh (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
You're a Satanist. Your opinion is about as credible as my grandparents in regard to how to program their VCR.
darrinrasberry (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
hyper-Calvinism all the way. Except for the part mentioned below, this man speaks the truth. Before you even did evil to justify you for Hell, God either chose you or not. Completely arbitrary. If this is true, and I ever did Christianity a single favor in my whole life, I repent it from my very soul; my only sorrow and regret in my millions of sins is that I could not live long enough to do ten billion more.
darrinrasberry (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
James - "Esau I have hated" follows from God's determination of election, which is LOGICALLY PRECEDING any good or evil that Esau did. Hate PRECEDES justice in Romans 9, since it is done BEFORE God considered the good OR EVIL that Esau (or anyone) did. Election is done with the logical precedent of complete arbitration. Hail Satan!
iahm87 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)
if you want a whole book on this, you should get Justification of God by John Piper |
